Advices about the creation of maps and levels

Blitz3D Forums/Blitz3D Programming/Advices about the creation of maps and levels

KovaSteel(Posted 2003) [#1]
I`m currently starting out a 3D RPG (Final Fantasy like) in Blitz 3D and I wanted to know if the following programs were enough for me to create the worlds,levels,etc(i.e everything:

-3d studio max r3.1
-adobe photoshop 6

Any helpful tutorials about them will be welcomed. You can also suggest any more programs.


IPete2(Posted 2003) [#2]
Kova,

They are both great programmes but max is quite complex, if you don't have too much experience or you haven't got Max yet, check out the links page (see above white text link)for these three programmes, Milkshape (exports to b3d), CharacterFX (for animating your characters in case you don't have Character Studio with Max) and the all important Ultimate Unwrap (a programme which allows incredible texuture control).

You'll find some excellent tutorials on Psionics web site and Robs 3d help pages (also found in links above). Other than that, check out 3D cafe for some character and texturing tutorials, Scarcrow's are very good as I remember.

You'll also need a programme to record and edit sound and one for music too I'd guess.

If you look around the archives you may find a couple of bits of bb code to make great looking fonts for RPG's too, as well as tiling terrain in 3d, which would be good for very large expanses of land.

You may like to try out "Freeworld" which is an online RPG with multiple players all playing together - online. Great fun.

Good luck,

IPete2.


Good luck with the project!


KovaSteel(Posted 2003) [#3]
Thanks for the reply!

I already got the max and Character Studio too. Max is sure really complex but i think I`ll need to cope up with that.

My project was initially started in Darkbasic classic but it was not very graphicaly pleasant. Thus I decided to start in Blitz!


IPete2(Posted 2003) [#4]
Kova,

I'm not sure if Robs b3d exporter works with verison 3, but you could try! It appears as a materail and you export under the far right icon - where max script stuff is kept.

I have seen somewhere recently on this forum, that you can use another exporter to export Character Studio animated characters so you can use them in B3d. Use the search facility, it was about 3 weeks ago.

regards,

IPete2.


Gabriel(Posted 2003) [#5]
I wouldn't use Milkshape to model levels/environments. You can use 3dsMax, but it's not perfect either. Level/world editors really ought to enable you to sketch out the basic shape of the level quick. Maplet isn't advanced enough yet, but it's the right TYPE of tool.

I would be using Halo's Cartography Shop if it didn't crash a lot for me. If it doesn't crash for you, I highly recommend it. Or you might want to look into creating your own level editor.


KovaSteel(Posted 2003) [#6]
Do you think that CShop would be suitable to create both indoor and outddor environment for rpg games?I`ll try the demo and if it looks good,i`ll order it and I`ll then use max and photoshop only to create the remaining entities.

Ipete2, i looked through the archives and i couldn`t find any 3d tiling system. Would be nice if you could tell me exactly where it is.

Thanks


KovaSteel(Posted 2003) [#7]
I started the first scenario of my game which is mainly based on an outdoor village with houses,tress,etc.

Could anyone of you guys advice me on which programs I could use to do this??

Thanks


Aoneweb(Posted 2003) [#8]
Quill3d is a good place to start.
http://quill3d.users.btopenworld.com/index.htm


IPete2(Posted 2003) [#9]
Kova,

The link is in Algorythms, in the archive section:

There is some demo code, but the system was coded by Sswift. Shawn has a few really nice bits of code you can purchase $15 (unless used for commercial purposes), anyway here's the link to his full system:

http://lightning.prohosting.com/~sswift/swift-terrain-system.zip


You'll need to read the code, which is normally well commented.

I have many of Sswifts commercial licences and I think his stuff is excellent, check out the demo code though before you purchase, to make sure you can understand it and it's what you want.

Hope this helps,

IPete2.


KovaSteel(Posted 2003) [#10]
Thanks but could you please help me about the making of my outdoor village??!!

I modeeled part of it in Max and what do I do now? Do I need to put it in Unwrap 3d or texture it in max itself ?!!?


Ruz(Posted 2003) [#11]
You can texture it in max and then export it straight to Blitz using the Panda.x exporter. Its very good and very stable . the only thing with x is that it doesn't export animation or at least blitz can't read it. but for level design thats cool

http://www.pandasoft.demon.co.uk/directxmax4.htm


IPete2(Posted 2003) [#12]
KOva,

Sorry about the delay, I have been on holiday during this period.

What do you need to know next?

IPete2.


KovaSteel(Posted 2003) [#13]
First of all, I got the R3.1 Studio Max(until i am able to get to upto 5).I created the village in AC3D(another modeller if you didn`t know) just for a test and after having an overview of it, I started it in my MAX 3.1.

The modelling part is no prob since I have quite a good understanding of many modellers and they are most likely the same,in one way or another.But when it come to the texturing part, then it becomes a real headache!!!I really don`t know what I need to do!

Do I unwrap it in Max,send it to photoshop and then texture it OR do I use the material editor to texture it OR do i create the textures in photoshop and the uv map it in photoshop??!!

Some tutorials about the -creation of good textures-(Concrete,Wood,Bricks,Etc) in Photoshop itself or MAX ,the -material editor- ,-UV mapping- and -UV unwrapping- would be appreciated!!


IPete2(Posted 2003) [#14]
Kova,

Check out the links page and look for robs tutorial web site. I think there are some tutorials there.

The pther place to check out is PlanetQuake.com they have some excellent tutorials (some appear on www.3dcafe.com too).

I am a bit of a novice when it comes to texturing myself, however, you can do it in Max and when you export as .3ds you must gather the textures into the same directory as the model - for it to be seen in Blitz.

Yes use Unwrap, you must also make sure everything has uv co ordinates too, you do this in Max - the pull down in the second icon along the margin tool bar on the right, modifiers, look for uv there. If your material has been placed on the object, use the blue and white square to see it in Max's perspective window, make sure it has textured set - in the white text pulldown inside the viewport (RMB to reveal I think).

How detailed do you want to texture. It can be very pain staking. One thing not to do - do not use Max's 'built in textures' they won't work, you must use proper image map textures (not ones generated in Max itself).

Max has a selection of maps you can use, in the maps directory, divided neatly into categories. Might be best to produce a reduced size set (256*256 or 512*512) to low polygon engines in real-time.

Also go to Psionics web site (from the links page), there are some superb tutorials on modelling and texturing plus some already done so you can see how they work! Psionics a great chap, you can e-mail him too without any worries - he's usually ready to help.

Also on the links page is Ultimate Unwrap 3d, very good for this sort of thing, and imports and exports b3d I think too - check that out!

Hope some of this helps m8!

Let me know how you get on.

IPete2.


KovaSteel(Posted 2003) [#15]
Special thanks to ipete 2 for his support!

I have partly mastered the uv unnwrapping in max and with the help of some plugins, i am able to export the unwrapped object as bmp and then open it in photoshop to texture it.

I am currently trying to do the actual texturing and it turns to be the heck a lot of work to make good looking textures but I think that i`ll gradually get there.When I reach a presentable stage, I`ll post some screens!

Thanks


IPete2(Posted 2003) [#16]
Kova,

Glad to hear your progress. The work it take to achieve good looking 3D models, textures and particularly characters is very much underestimated.

I look forward to seeing some of your efforts in the coming weeks.

IPete2.


KovaSteel(Posted 2003) [#17]
I`ve started the actual texturing and I`ve got a question!!

MUST my textures be 512 x 512 or 256 x 256???


IPete2(Posted 2003) [#18]
Kova,

Texture sizes can be anysize BUT you would be better (for every PC graphics card capability is different) sticking to a power of 2.

512 X 512 will produce really nice texture quality, but too many may take up too much memory, so use a variety 64 x 64 for small objects far away, right up to 512 x 512 for bigger objects up close.

Keep as manay as possible to 256 x 256 or even try 128 x 128.

This will maximise the efficiency of the level as far as textures are concerned.

I have - on some occaisions used 1024 x 1024 for a couple of textures. Blitz will adapt down any texture a card cannot display, so even in some extreme cases you should be okay.

Stick to 256 x 256 and 512 x 512 would be the best bet!

IPete2.


IPete2.


KovaSteel(Posted 2003) [#19]
Once I complete everything, I was wondering what it would be best to export, 3ds or x.

I can`t really find a big difference between the two except that x is a bit smaller then 3ds.

Does loading a x file in blitz faster than a 3ds??

Thanks


Mustang(Posted 2003) [#20]
.3DS is ancient [crap] fileformat that NO ONE should use for ANYTHIHG these days.

.X supports for example smoothing groups properly in Blitz3D (.3DS does not).

...So if you haven't guessed yet, then my suggestion is to use .X if you can't use .B3D - and avoid .3DS at all costs! :)


KovaSteel(Posted 2003) [#21]
Is b3d better that .x??


Mustang(Posted 2003) [#22]
.B3D supports "mesh deformation"/ seamless/ skinned models, but .X (what Blitz uses) does not. DX8 .X would support it, but Blitz3D uses DX7 .X, so...

.B3D is better, but it might be difficult to convert your models to that format - depending of course what is your modeling app.


KovaSteel(Posted 2003) [#23]
When someone gonna play my game, does the person gonna need direct x 7 to play it??


IPete2(Posted 2003) [#24]
Or anything above - yep!

IPete2.