Making (Monkey) games
Monkey Archive Forums/Monkey Discussion/Making (Monkey) games
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| Pardon my privacy invasion questions below, but I'm merely curious, so you don't need to answer if you don't want to.. 1. Do you make games as a hobby or profession, full time or part time? 2. Would you like to work on games full time and if so, why? 3. Do you feel working for yourself making games is fullfilling a desire/dream, or do you just do it for the (potential) money? 4. What platforms do you support and why? 5. Do you think there's a future for Monkey, compared to other products in the market? 6. Any useful tips to share for those starting out and trying to decide to make games part time or full time? I'll start: 1. Hobby at the moment, part time when I can find it! 2. Because I want to work for myself, doing something I love and am very passionate about it. 3. Mostly it's a desire for me as I started dabbling with code on the Speccy/C64 back in the day, but never really gave it a proper go. And the fact that I LOVE playing games, but I have a bigger desire to make games than play games, as I find it more rewarding. 4. Currently I'd like to support what Monkey provides, ie Windows 7/8, Windows 7/8 Phones, Linux desktop, Mac desktop, Android and Ouya. Using HTML5 for prototyping/testing and hosting on my own site is also a very good idea for certain games. I'd also like to make a game that is on the PS3 or Xbox 360 as playing with controllers really is the best fun :) 5. I've looked at various products and since I'm new to OO (coming from years of procedural programming methods), it's take me a while to get into the mindset, but so far, it's the best package (let alone one of the most affordable) on the market. And also, Mark Sibly FTW \o/ 6. No tips from me. I'm looking for some! :) If this post is inappropriate or in the wrong place, please do not hesitate to change/delete if you need to. Thanks, Jaco |
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| 1. Do you make games as a hobby or profession, full time or part time? Profession, full time. 2. Would you like to work on games full time and if so, why? Not really relevant, given my answer to Q1. 3. Do you feel working for yourself making games is fullfilling a desire/dream, or do you just do it for the (potential) money? Desire for what? To not get to retirement age, look back and go "jeez, what the hell was that all about"? I want to achieve something, and I won't do that by sitting at a desk, taking orders from some fat lay-about who never lifts a finger from one day to the next and thinks I'm not worth more than £6/hour. Other than that, I'm in it for the money. That's what makes the world go round. 4. What platforms do you support and why? Mac/PC - they're the easiest to deploy for. 5. Do you think there's a future for Monkey, compared to other products in the market? I think there are rough edges that need trimming as there seems to be a lot of cross-target inconsistency, which personally, is off-putting to the whole "code once, release many" methodology. 6. Any useful tips to share for those starting out and trying to decide to make games part time or full time? Start small, and don't listen to people who tell you you can't. |
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| Thanks for your open and honest replies GFK :) |
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| 1. hobby, but i have no time. 2. Yes/No. It's a very competitive career path and it would be a grind, just like any job. but i like interactivity, so i gravitate towards games, web sites, mobile apps, etc. 3. working for yourself is VERY fulfilling, this is why everyone wants to do it! it can get lonely, too. i worked for myself for years, but life's interruptions have big effects. this is why it's ok to work at a "non-dream" job from time to time. 4. android. android is the future. 5. there's a future for monkey, but Unity and other apps are dominating the "make games" market. plus, monkey is just one little piece of a game-making pipeline. you still have to make art, sound, ideas, level-design, and publishing/marketing. 6. the key is, IMHO, is to make a lot of little games. try to make a game a month. then at some point you'll get used to releasing games and dealing with feedback, and that's when the real game making begins. i feel that if anyone wants to truly be successful doing this crap, then learning to complete a project and dealing with the end-users is key. |
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| 1. Do you make games as a hobby or profession, full time or part time? It started like a hobby. Now it's full time. I have some kind of partnership with my ex-boss. 2. Would you like to work on games full time and if so, why? Yes. Even from Commandore age I dream to make games better than what I played. Unfortunately I do not have the skills yet. 3. Do you feel working for yourself making games is fullfilling a desire/dream, or do you just do it for the (potential) money? Both. 4. What platforms do you support and why? windows, mac and ios. why? because android it's not selling. the others.. i do not have access to that market. 5. Do you think there's a future for Monkey, compared to other products in the market? Unfortunately no. :( 6. Any useful tips to share for those starting out and trying to decide to make games part time or full time? If you have time and resources (like money, food, house, etc.) do what do you dream. Do YOUR GAME. You will work: 2,3,4 years.. but at the end will be a good project. If you need to survive (like me) do what market is asking. Try to make money and then... do YOUR GAME. R. |
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| 1. Do you make games as a hobby or profession, full time or part time? Both - I make games as a profession and as a hobby (I still make games for an 8-bit computer called MSX, for example). Part time, since I'm back in college. 2. Would you like to work on games full time and if so, why? Yup. I'm working towards this goal. Making games is in my blood... I really can't see myself doing anything else instead. 3. Do you feel working for yourself making games is fullfilling a desire/dream, or do you just do it for the (potential) money? Not a desire/dream - it's beyond that - almost a necessity! I *have* to make games. Of course, making monkey doing something you love is the best of the worlds :) 4. What platforms do you support and why? All I can. If tomorrow I get my hands on a XBox One, I'll develop games for it. A PS4? Bring it on! I've made games for Wii (actually a MSX emulator hehee), MSX, GBA, Mega Drive, DOS, Windows, Linux, Mac OS, HTML5, Flash (AS2 and AS3), iOS, Android... even made a game playable on DVD players! 5. Do you think there's a future for Monkey, compared to other products in the market? For sure. As Monkey expands it's targets and since it's very lightweight, I hope to use it for several years. 6. Any useful tips to share for those starting out and trying to decide to make games part time or full time? Make games. Start with simple ones, and progressively increase the difficulty... after all those years programming, I still live by that mantra, tackling one project with a difficulty degree greater than the previous :) |
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| Thanks for this great feedback guys. Keep 'em coming :-) @SLotman, I know the MSX well enough. I've got several retro machines set up in my "cave" as my wife calls it. Mostly Amigas (which is why I'm so interested in the Amiga OS3.x target development), but myself and a mate have been building games for Speccy, Sam, Amiga for a few years now.. |
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| 1. Do you make games as a hobby or profession, full time or part time? Purely as a hobby in any (little) spare time I get. 2. Would you like to work on games full time and if so, why? Hey have fond memories of all the old 8 bit home computer games and arcade games from that era but like anything else, doing it full time I dont think I would enjoy it as much. 3. Do you feel working for yourself making games is fullfilling a desire/dream, or do you just do it for the (potential) money? No working for yourself is great, maybe earning some revenue from mobile apps would be good, I already do but not on a big scale. 4. What platforms do you support and why? Web and iOS at the moment. Keen to look at Android too. 5. Do you think there's a future for Monkey, compared to other products in the market? Probably remain a niche tool unless it gets acquired by another company or gets funded to start pushing the marketing. 6. Any useful tips to share for those starting out and trying to decide to make games part time or full time? Start with small simple stuff, don't get bogged down in frameworks, learn the tool first and then look at frameworks. Gary |
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| 1. Do you make games as a hobby or profession, full time or part time? At the moment for me its something I do because I enjoy it, and its something I hope that in the near future will actually start paying some bills, so I guess I would have to say part time. 2. Would you like to work on games full time and if so, why? See above. 3. Do you feel working for yourself making games is fullfilling a desire/dream, or do you just do it for the (potential) money? Making games is something I have wanted to do since I was about 9 years old and wrote code for my Amstrad CPC 464, I guess nothing has changed in the last 30 odd years I'm still that same 9 year old who gets a kick out of making games and writing code. 4. What platforms do you support and why? PC because it's the best gaming platform in the world. Android because it does not take a 2-3 grand apple computer to release on. Html5 & Flash because, well why the hell not. :) 5. Do you think there's a future for Monkey, compared to other products in the market? I admit I wish the community was much much larger than it is, and I wish mark or team spent some time bringing the website and their marketing up to par with the competition. I think it has a future so long as Mark enjoys working on it, which he has done ever since Blitz on the Amiga so I think were fine in that regard. I think Monkey is the first really dynamic language for mark, his other languages have always been bound to a single platform, or just the main desktop's in the case of Max, but with monkey and the way he's built it, its open to just about any possible target there is, so do not think mark will be making any new languages like he has int he past, this time I think monkey will stick and instead he will expand its catalog of features and modules. At least I hope.! 6. Any useful tips to share for those starting out and trying to decide to make games part time or full time? depending on the country your in there will be tax and inland revenue things to deal with, I suggest that you refrain from declaring yourself as self employed or a sole trader until you actually have something your planning to sell ready to go. I see a lot of developers do that first and then waste months or years actually trying to complete a project. So finish your game first, and when its ready then think about getting yourself square with the tax office. |
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| 1. Do you make games as a hobby or profession, full time or part time? I'm a hobbyist. Where others might write a book, paint a picture, sculpt a model, or play a game, I spend my free time writing games, because that's what gives me pleasure. That's my hobby. It's simply what I do. Job wise.. Hmmmm.. Complicated!! My "paying" job used to be a simple shop worker, in a local convenience store/off-license. A small corner shop with only 5 or so members of staff, I was in charge of putting the orders through, as well as general till work, and keeping the shelves full. We all did pretty much the same thing, except the main boss guy, who had to deal with a whole bunch of other stuff on top! ... Then they found a brain tumour, I spent six months in hospital, and now I spend all day sitting at home because I'm unable to get far out of the house without being off-balance, and being sick everywhere... My social life has gone from "lots of people every day" to ... Well.. I occasionally get to see the cat when she wants fed :/ 2. Would you like to work on games full time and if so, why? In many ways, I think I sort of am!! Not really having any other kinds of hobbies has left me with pretty much nothing else to do, at the minute! Being a "netizen" I've found plenty of silly little projects to keep me occupied, and thankfully my AGameAWeek project keeps the old grey-matter busy.. ..and yet.. I still consider myself as just a hobbyist. 3. Do you feel working for yourself making games is fullfilling a desire/dream, or do you just do it for the (potential) money? I'm putting together games in ways that are fun, and I think if I focused on making the next game a "best seller", I'd lose a lot of what it is that's keeping me interested. I'm watching as game after game hits the iOS and Android stores, sells in the range of about 50 copies, then falls to a rapid death. I'm not exactly annoyed by this, and I'm enjoying that those few players are bothering to play my games. If I were worried about making a sale, I think I'd be quite disheartened by this point. I'm doing it because, to me, it's still fun to cobble together the little playthings. I'm not doing it for the cash. 4. What platforms do you support and why? I currently support Windows, Android, Html5 and iOS. I could probably add Mac to the list, but I've still not got around to even barebones tests of that!! For what it's worth, if Monkey can do it, so can I. It's more a case of having time to figure out how to get the compiler to work, than having to port. And thank Monkey for that!! Because removing "porting" from my schedule is a godsend! 5. Do you think there's a future for Monkey, compared to other products in the market? As long as I'm still around, sure! It's never going to be "Unity", but it is a suitable successor to the Blitz lineup. It might never gain mass market appeal, but it's a fantastic language, and a great tool, and I'm really glad that Mark's taken the time and effort to build it up as well as he has. 6. Any useful tips to share for those starting out and trying to decide to make games part time or full time? I'm not the best person to ask. I'm not losing/gaining anything, I'm just enjoying myself, and occasionally getting the odd minor-success along the way. If you focus on "work" then it will BE work. You will have to work on it, and not just the game making, but all the publicity, too. PR gubbins, Review submissions, Advertising. It all takes time, and sometimes it starts to add to the costs, too. If you've nothing to lose, then go for it, but if you're expecting to magically generate a profit, you've a long road ahead. |
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| @ElectricBoogaloo - thanks for sharing! It's great to see what people's points of view are for game dev in general as well as the useful tips for others starting out (like me). Coming from a procedural programming background, the learning curve has been a bit steep for me, but I'm chipping away at it with a small shooter I'm coding, and looking at tutorials, videos and examples, it's slowly but surely starting to make sense. |
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| 1. Do you make games as a hobby or profession, full time or part time? Hobby, but would like to eventually turn it into something part time once i get my personal life priorities in order (new house, wife, bills..). 2. Would you like to work on games full time and if so, why? Yes. I love playing games. I love making them. I love how you can create a idea, set its rules and boundaries, and allow users to interact with it. Its the one thing i can do obsessively (when ever i get the chance to). Its the only kind of "work" that I would willingly miss sleep, food, TV, etc to get done. Its the only kind of "work" that i get excited thinking at night when going to sleep, and excited to get started again once i wake up. While people are talking about their TPS reports during lunch break, i'm busy away thinking of getting back to work on my game project. I would totally do this full time if i could. 3. Do you feel working for yourself making games is fullfilling a desire/dream, or do you just do it for the (potential) money? Desire/dream. Making good money wouldn't hurt either, but i don't see this happening soon. Not for me at least. 4. What platforms do you support and why? PC, Mac, IOS, Android, Ouya, HTML5, Windows 8. Not because i prefer one over the other. But only because those are attainable; I have immediate access to those platforms, and by using Monkey (or many other modern dev tools out there) pretty much can export to it with fair ease (most of the time at least). The more platforms you can support, the more exposure your game will have to different audiences. 5. Do you think there's a future for Monkey, compared to other products in the market? Yes. I think Monkey has it's share of benefits as compared to other game dev tools out there. There's definitely a future for it. Us developers just have to make it happen :). But thats a different topic altogether. 6. Any useful tips to share for those starting out and trying to decide to make games part time or full time? Pretty much what everyone else said. Start small. Stay focus. Complete what you start. Take criticisms (and you will get it) then learn from it. Granted, thats all easier said than done - me included. |
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| 1. Do you make games as a hobby or profession, full time or part time? Full time profession 2. Would you like to work on games full time and if so, why? n/a 3. Do you feel working for yourself making games is fullfilling a desire/dream, or do you just do it for the (potential) money? I do it because I have to, if I am not actively working on something creative I feel like I am quite literally doing nothing. I like to auter my own ideas for games and working for anyone else would not allow for that freedom. If you are creating games full time then you must work for the money and to me there is nothing better than being paid to do something I love. 4. What platforms do you support and why? PC and Mac primarily, I have released some stuff to mobile and tablets but computers are still my main target. 5. Do you think there's a future for Monkey, compared to other products in the market? Monkey has a future for sure, with the latest additions making it possible to deploy desktop games with ease (fullscreen and resolution switching was a must for this). Extending monkey with native code also makes it very powerful, monkey may put off people who are used to drag and drop type games development as it is purely code. 6. Any useful tips to share for those starting out and trying to decide to make games part time or full time? I would say make a few small games then you can see how much work must go in to a game to make it complete, there is a massive difference between prototyping an idea in a few days and making that into a full game, there are a thousand and one small things you must do to make that leap from hobbyist to professional and creating a few small fully functional games will let you know if you are ready for that or not. |
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| 1. Do you make games as a hobby or profession, full time or part time? Yes, full-time right now 2. Would you like to work on games full time and if so, why? As long as it keeps paying the bills, I want to keep doing this. 3. Do you feel working for yourself making games is fullfilling a desire/dream, or do you just do it for the (potential) money? It is a dream I had as a child which I gave up as an adult, then came back to many years later. I want to save the dream! 4. What platforms do you support and why? Windows and Android primarily, but in the near future, Linux and SteamOS. My current employer insists on Windows and Mac support, and typically mobile releases end up on both Android and ios. 5. Do you think there's a future for Monkey, compared to other products in the market? Yes. If anything, it should be marketed harder. However I'm guessing Mark wants to keep the community small-ish until it's "feature-complete". That's just a guess, however. There are very little BASIC-like languages carrying the torch these days, and VB.NET is not a first-rate player in game or cross-platform development. The niche is wide open for Monkey, especially since it supports advanced convenience features like Generics, reflection, and interfaces and already quite resembles VB in syntax. 6. Any useful tips to share for those starting out and trying to decide to make games part time or full time? Don't do it for the money, you'll be sorely disappointed. Expect to work a lot and probably have to take crappy side jobs to make ends meet while you build up your portfolio! Ideally you should get started early and continue throughout life. When you're still living with your parents, you can afford to make flops and gain experience without it hurting you financially. It's a lot harder to recover from a flop you were hoping would pay next month's bills! Also, if you want to make games for a living, it will consume most of your hobbies -- everything you do creatively should have a use in gamedev somewhere, because you'll have to wear many hats if you want to be a successful developer. No one has much interest in "idea" people, and one-trick ponies should probably be more appropriately thought of as cogs in a machine, because (again) it takes many components to make a successful game. Finally, remember, ideas are a dime a dozen, it's execution what counts -- and in lieu of that, a good shine job to dazzle people when you don't have a product is critical. The latter is sadly a fact of life, and sometimes it matters who you are more than what you're offering. Don't be antisocial; make connections and network, and try not to lose the friends you've made over the years, or you'll be at least 2 steps behind your peers. They'll be there to help you when it really counts, even if it's as simple as promoting your game on Twitter or something... |
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| Hello. I shouldn't really nip into this conversation because it doesn't apply to me at the moment. Just reading all this comments make me feel a bit.. don't know, a bit funny maybe. What i personally would tell you is.....do it if you enjoy and don't take ANY notice of people that ever tel you " you can't" or "don't do it for the money" because those 2 can apply to any market, any business. Do it if you enjoy it, put all the passion you have but be prepared to fail and fail it hard, like any other business. It takes time, dedication and enthusiasm to do anything and be successful, and game design is no difference: thousands of people are doing it , so what? Thousands of people are in the building industry, same for education, same for...you go it. It's the attitude that matter, and how you take failure;take it as a "failure" and you failed, take it as a "learning" and you win...obviously you have to pay the bills so don't walk too far or your foot will be left behind :P Ok maybe i shoulnd't post on a Friday night... |
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| Great feedback guys. Many thanks. Although I'm sorta looking around what people say, I'm also just curious about others here and why they do it. Its great to be in an environment where you can ask questions and get help. The last thing anyone here needs is people who criticise and I was hoping that comments here inspire others (and myself obv.) to keep at it :-) |
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| 1. Do you make games as a hobby or profession, full time or part time? Both, but sadly I can spend so little time working on them... 2. Would you like to work on games full time and if so, why? Working on your hobby isn't work! But bills need to be paid, so for now I have to work in other kind of works to accomplish that. 3. Do you feel working for yourself making games is fullfilling a desire/dream, or do you just do it for the (potential) money? Creating things is the way I feel "full" on life. Money is good to buy food and stuff :D 4. What platforms do you support and why? I'm flexible about that. I like to spread my creations as wide as possible. But I have to admit that my last iOS game was so annoying to publish that I now I'm rethinking about publishing again for Apple. 5. Do you think there's a future for Monkey, compared to other products in the market? I'm new to Monkey, but I really think that there is a future for it, for sure. Maybe that it needs to be better marketed, redesigning the web, and modernizing the forums. And putting at the top the most "flashy" apps created with monkey. Even putting a "demo reel" in HTML5 of what is Monkey capable on the first page could help. 6. Any useful tips to share for those starting out and trying to decide to make games part time or full time? The most important: Do games that YOU want to play And as others have said, start with simple, little things. There are a lot of people who wants to make a new Final Fantasy clone as his/hers first game, without knowing how much work is behind even in the littlest completed game. |
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@Sensei: Seeing your site, I remembered I was thinking of doing a 'lost tapes' conversion myself, to MSX2... even made some graphics for it: It's a really cool game, and someday I'll do it :) BTW: for those saying that Monkey needs marketing - I'll do a little bit in around 2 months. It's a lecture I'm giving at my university, where we all should present a different technology... guess what I agree with the teacher to be my presentation?? ^_^ |
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| Great idea Slotman! Make that game! My mate prefers developing for the retro machines but I'm trying to get our games on more modern hardware, hence why I'm getting into Monkey dev. |
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| 1. Do you make games as a hobby or profession, full time or part time? I really haven't made many games. I currently make them as a hobby, but working towards getting into some kind of a profession either replacing my current job, or just as a supplement to it. 2. Would you like to work on games full time and if so, why? I'd love to just do it full time! I've always wanted to create my own game dev company. I've started glimpses of one, and working on getting my ducks in a row so that I can have that dream come to a reality :) 3. Do you feel working for yourself making games is fullfilling a desire/dream, or do you just do it for the (potential) money? Yep. Its been a long time dream of mine. Ever since i got the VIC20 and messed with my child-hood friends C64, I've just wanted to make games. If I make money doing it some day, then that would be great too :) 4. What platforms do you support and why? Honestly, I'd go for as many as I possibly could support. I love the challenge to make something for any OS/console :) Narrowing it down to what I am currently targeting, OUYA/Android and Mac/PC. I suppose I could do HTML5 as well. These are all platforms I readily have at my disposal. I do have XBOX 360 and soon to have XBOX ONE, but the cost has driven me away from that for now. 5. Do you think there's a future for Monkey, compared to other products in the market? I think the future is still there with monkey so long as the programmers continue using it and Mark keeps at it or releases it as Public Domain. I really enjoy Monkey programming as I did/do with BlitzMax. 6. Any useful tips to share for those starting out and trying to decide to make games part time or full time? Being a full time software engineer building business apps, its the same concept, always start out small and work your way to the larger projects. we've been developing on the same project (keep in mind we've made many build releases) for the past 9 years at my work. The code base is millions of lines of code - not just one application but many smaller apps added together to make the complete system. We've designed it from the ground up and are constantly perfecting it as we go. The hardest part is that its all written to appease the FDA and their stringent codes and practices. :) The point is to keep working on your projects. The smaller ones add up to give you the skills you need to make the big ones possible! I've enjoyed reading over this thread. I just found it just before making this post. I've been too busy the past couple of weeks getting my house worked on - as in remodeling parts of it. thats a task all in and of itself! I've made a load of tools aiding me in building games - such as an animation viewer (to see how the frames look together at various speeds to get the timing that I want), and a Map Editor that allowed me to make my own map formats and use them in a game. I even went and got my Bachelor's Degree in Game Software Development; primarily so I could get a degree in programming, but to also have the experience in developing proper games. The experiences gained from it was worth every second spent. I struggle too much with perfecting things, and I really just need to get through making some really cool demos and put all the pieces together to complete game - even a simple one. Some other points of interest: 1) When you are working on a project, keep the style you use consistent. This means the way you declare your variables and objects, how you format your classes, how you name the variables and classes, and their methods. 2) Use MEANINGFUL names for everything. Nothing sucks harder than when 6 months after you finish your project only to have to make some code changes and you can't remember what does what... 3) Break your classes down into separate files where applicable. Use your best judgement on how it should be broken down, and then apply that same concept with any of the files you create. You can, for instance, create a single file per class. You'd end up with a load of files, but you could easily see them from the filesystem and know that particular file does. You could also make a single file that performs a single functionality, like say an XML Reader or Writer.You know what it does still and would be very easy to copy into another project later. 4) Use error handling appropriately. What I mean here is that when you are dealing with the filesystem, or network communication and the like, ALWAYS look for errors and handle them so that your app doesn't break. I'm not sure how everyone else handles errors in their games, or even if they try, but my practices have always dealt with controlling errors with things that involve databases, filesystems, and network operations. There are others as well, perhaps when you are dealing with communications with peripherals and what not. Not everyone agrees with the dealings of overhead with error handling, but I use it. 5) Don't overcomplicate ANY method or function. This is a serious readability issue that SO MANY developers overlook. If the method or function looks like its hard to follow, then it probably is and should be broken down into smaller methods *just* to make reading and following it easier. Often more than not, it becomes reusable by other methods or functions too. Additionally, this will make finding and fixing problems far easier. 6) If you are writing an app, not necessarily a game, embed debugging into the source. You can always enable or disable debugging/trace from a simple configuration setting. The output should be written to a file so that you can easily see what the app was doing when the error / problem occurred. Also, a nice way to locate and eliminate bugs :) |
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| 1. I'm purely a hobbiest I would love to code more but time is limited 2. Games market as it stands is quite saturated I just like coding games I want to play. 3. See Q2 Whapla 4. Everything if I can compile and release it I'm there 5. I do think it has a future mainly because anyone can write a target for it, on the BRL targets they need to be unified across the board 6. Any code that's well documented is helpful, make reusable code and it will get easier. If you recode the whole game every game it will be the most painful experience you will have, code modular so you can improve as you go. |
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| 1. Do you make games as a hobby or profession, full time or part time? Part-time Hobby 2. Would you like to work on games full time and if so, why? Not just games, business apps (this is my main area). 3. Do you feel working for yourself making games is fullfilling a desire/dream, or do you just do it for the (potential) money? Mobile gaming is such a great area to be involved in, it can only get better in time. If you enjoy what you do then it's definately fulfilling. Working for yourself in any industry is worth it. 4. What platforms do you support and why? As many as possible 5. Do you think there's a future for Monkey, compared to other products in the market? I believe there is a future for any product, provided there is an active user base. Monkey is very easy to setup and get working and I love the feel of the language. 6. Any useful tips to share for those starting out and trying to decide to make games part time or full time? Go with your passion, we only get one chance in life, why waste it? |
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